Anime and sexism/feminism

[stop!!!!]

That's sort of approaching the root of the problem, where men and women have essentially engineered each other to be the way they are, physically and mentally. It's the fault of every man and woman before us. No one should be surprised that the struggles against sexism are so difficult. We're not living in the past, so we do what we must for future equality, but it's like a chess game against our own human biology at times.

For some reason, Hartman Hips are coming to mind. Forget breasts, the hip to waist ratio is supposedly the most universally attractive body feature to men (after a cute face). Even there you'll find ample exceptions.

--Romey

[devilgrl]

I've seen every episode of Card Captor Sakura uncut, and I really, really don't see where do people get that this show was used to appeal to the lolicon crowd. None of the outfits were ever too revealing (most covered all the way down to the knees), nor there was never any fanservice shots or suggestive camera angles. It was simply an (extremely) sugarish sweet show.

As for Tomoyo filming Sakura, most people seem to write it off as Tomoyo being in love with Sakura (which is pretty obvious if you follow the series), but since the series never says it outright, it could really mean anything.

I think the closest to fanservice CCS had were all those "romantic" scenes with Touya and Yukito.

[<3Mariah<3]

Im learning things I'm not sure a crazy goody-twoshoes like me should know.

Honestly I don't in the least find hips attractive, If i am in one of my rare moments of well, how should i put this......vanity, I would say I find the Overall petitness & length of the female figure attractive, not any certain body part or parts, but I still say the most Attractive thing in a woman is her personality, but then agian like ive said, I'M A weird one. yep.

& ive been thinking, isn't this thread overall pointless sure we can all rant about how Females our misrepresented & oversexualized in shonen/& Senin manga & how Males are (In a way) In shojo manga, but in the big scheme of things Arn't comics beased around Fantasy & don't we read them or watch the animes for a form of escapism. Givin in some cases its perverted but oh well, In the end this thread just tries to heard to throw reality & Politics in with Fantasy & thats just wrong the fact is anime is in its perverted stage, a sad but true fact & overall I think we can all deal with it as long as they have AWSOME ACTION & good story & comdey, yed it may not be as good as the classics but oh well, in the end although I support Equal portrayal for male & female characters in the end Anime is ficiton so we really should'nt make such a big deal out of it I guess, Its really no worse then US LIVE action media, or those crazy "Y-type" fangirls. (They scare, they scare me so!!!)

[svcj]

Someone was either trolling or sadly misinformed when they added that, then. The fact that other things have changed has little to do with the point in question.

--Romey

[RoHo]

That turns on fangirls? Looks like a 12 yr. old with a sixpack.

What's wrong with a female character showing off "skin"? People get worked up about Sailor Moon being naked, but it's no big deal that Goku never wears a shirt, or prances about with his manhood out.

And one seems to mention some strong Go Nagai characters. Sure Sayaka isn't a good example, but you have characters like Cutie Honey, Kekko Kamen (hawr), Iron Virgin Jun, etc.

And how does fanservice = sexist? Cutie Honey is sexist because she gets naked all the time? Sure, let's ignore the fact she's a strong warrior who doesn't need a man. The fact she gets naked is sexist.

[Tommy311]

I think it kinda ties into what kenjisalk was saying about fanservice being lazy writing and appealing to the lowest common denominator

Perhaps fanservice isn't inherently sexist, but I the authorial intent neeRAB to be considered. In the case of Cutie Honey, well, I can't say cause I haven't seen it, but as a character, which was her greater appeal? Is it her strong warrior personality which the writers used to appeal to the audience, or did that take a back step to her body?

[Dark KnighTBladeS]

It's the character, and the writing for that show isn't inheritely sexist since each variation seems to take it in a different direction.

[Ryann L]

Shakespeare wasn't above pandering in his works. Do some people here consider themselves better than the Bard?

[Kop m]

I think the example that most bothered me in recent memory was Naomi Misora from Death Note. She had more brains than just about anybody in the show up to the point that she was introduced, but her fiancee constantly reminRAB her that she's not an FBI agent any longer and even says something along the lines of "Once we get married and start a family you'll be too busy having babies to worry about such things." (Paraphrased, but that was the general gist.) And she just stanRAB there and takes it!
And then, when she's on the verge of figuring out who Kira is faster than anyone else in the show, she suddenly and inexplicably [spoiler]makes a totally out-of-character lapse in judgment that allows Light to kill her, just to show the audience what a bastard he is.[/spoiler]

Her place as the primary female character in the show is then taken over by Misa. FRICKING MISA. Weak.

Most of my favorite female characters seem to get a weak ending like that, just when they're on the verge of becoming beyond awesome.

Casca (Berserk): She's the de facto commander of the Hawks and has Guts totally whipped. [spoiler]Rape her retarded![/spoiler]

Sakuraoka (Gantz): She's the only character who managed to permanently damage the Big Bad of the mission, and looks like she's on the verge of killing it. [spoiler]FIRE THE OPPRESSION LASERS![/spoiler]



To be fair, while Yoko from GL does wear a spectacularly fanservice-y outfit, she's also portrayed as a competent woman and is at least as interesting as any other character from that show besides Kamina and Simon.



I've mentioned this before, but this can be a bit of a Catch-22. If a female character is flawed, then she's a useless token female. But if she's flawless, she's an annoying overpowered Mary Sue.

[Chapo]

The outfits in CCS is Clamp both capitalizing on being toyetic for young girls as more costumes results in more toys, and also indulging themselves as manga-ka, as more outfits equals more variety and an outlet for more creativity. Additionally, by making the outfits outfits, rather than a transformation, it's one less element that could be exploited at direct service element (no quasi-nude magical transformation.)

I will say that it was the synthesis of characters like Sakura from CCS with characters like Ruri from Nadesico (mixed with the fact that in 1998 the US and UN finally got Japan to ban real child porn after years of pressure and threats of sanctions,) that launched this whole lolicon boom. Ruri created the idolism around a younger character, and Sakura helped to create the template for the perfect Mary Sue Kawaii Moe character to idolize. The heavy merchandizing of both helped to prove it could be profitable.