Capitalism vs. Communism

[wade2k8]

Primitive man didn't co-operate with others outside of his family.

The settlers knew how to shoot deer and turkeys, fish, etc., without the Indian's help. You don't travel across the ocean in a rickety boat, settling in a new world without knowing something about how to survive.

Were they community barns? No, they were privately owned barns. You helped your neighbor so that he would be there to help you. That was the deal then.
...


I do. Money is the motivating force behind most of mankind's advancements.
Thomas Edison didn't invent out of altrusim; he did so for profit, as did Henry Ford, Bill Gates and millions of others. To believe otherwise is to be naive.

[wiemercats]

I think what you are saying is: 1) communist societies didn't work because the leaders were selfish; and 2) communist societies could be superior because they would make people the same, and sameness leaRAB to unity and strength.

My response to your first point is that communist leaders again and again have been corrupt, selfish, and have mistreated their people, so there is zero reason to think any future communist society would be any different. We must base our views of how things are based on historical experience, not on some theory or ideal. Communist ideology on the ground does not work--it has always led to a hell on earth. Capitalist society recognizes that human nature always tenRAB toward self-oriented behvior, but it channels that energy in a constructive direction. Communist ideology misunderstanRAB how people operate.

That leaRAB me to my second point. History also shows that you cannot make all people the same. No society in the long sweep of human history has ever had all people even close to being the same. People differ naturally, and it is impossible to snuff that out. An absolutely essential element of evolution is genetic diversity. That is the entire reason for sexual rather than asexual reproduction--so that instead of being an exact genetic copy of the parent, each child gets a unique combination of genes, making each individual on the planet different from every other. You cannot snuff out diversity no matter how repressive the government is. It is utopian to think otherwise.

[☮Alyssa☮]

Just like in "The GoRAB must be Crazy" people have romanticized hunter-gatherer societies, imposing on them the dreaminess of their utopias. Of course they didn't have sharp, formal hierarchies because who neeRAB that with a small band of relatives? Nevertheless, there were looser status hierarchies in hunter-gatherer societies based on age and gender and ability to hunt and fight. The idea is simply not true that there were no followers in these groups and leaders who dominated decision-making. As groups grow larger and larger, the hierarchies get more formal, steeper, and more complex. It is a universal law, and it is no accident that you post examples of tiny societies that have zero relevance to the six billion people currently living who live in the average society of say 30 million people.

As for wealth inequality, of course there will be little of that when NO ONE in the tribe has ANYTHING!!!--as we see in hunter-gatherer societies. So yes I will concede that we can at least approach wealth inequality if we wipe out all material possessions. Zero can easily be equally divided among a bunch of people.

[Matt]

In my opinion its a pity we can't expect more of the human race than corruption. There have been places though that have thrived under a communist rule, butregretfully it was not even close to large enough success for anyone to see the benefits. All I can say is that its a pity that we can't get past our own selfish desires to make our selves better.

[Sexy Bastard]

Prehistoric man probably behaved very similarly to prehistoric animals, survival of the fittest. Mating, eating and everything else was probably controlled by the strongest of the group.

[djannika]

Communists and anarchists don't believe in nation states, but tend to believe in organization at a local, responsive level.



Sure zero can be. Who is advocating not having anything or wiping out all possessions? All that is produced can be used.

[Adasdasd]

Yes, people were connected by blood, but no other animal developed such societies of equality.



They obviously didn't know about the land, and they didn't have a lot available to them. I believe they landed in the wrong place, too.



The research and development for the major advancements in computers, science and technology and pharmaseuticals, in the last 50 years, has come from public, not private, funRAB. The computer was invented and developed as the result of public money. Bill Gates in fact, didn't want to invest in the development of the internet, because he saw no profit in it. The railroaRAB were public money, the space program is public money.

Generally, capitalists will not risk a lot of their own money for a long term major project which may have a social benefit. They are indeed greedy, and speculative, and are looking for quick, short-term profits.

[Macaulayy]

Hi TeRABter,

Where were those places?

Back in the '60's the flower children sought to fight the establishment by forming small communes where they would live in peace and love forever, sharing resources under the great communist ideal (To each according to...blah blah). After about two weeks most had discovered the "relatives are like rotten fish theory" instead, and quit the experiment to quietly blend back into the good old capitalist system, where they reside today in unimagined wealth.

Don't fret too much over the failed idea of communism. We are who we are, our natures won't be changed any time soon.

regarRAB

[EightMoreTimes]

Excellent point. The assumptions about humans found in communist philosophy run completely contrary to the theory of evolution, and it is an amazing contradiction that Marx respected Darwin so much. How did we magically go from something like the gorillas who duke it out and maybe even kill each other over the females, the winner getting a harem to dominate, and the losers getting to wander to look for a lucky opportunity to sneak sex with a unprotected mate--how did we get from that brutishness to the peace-loving commune of selfless saints? Primates like gorillas show sharp hierarchies.