RO: Palestinian jailed for being Palestinian

07-22-2010, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by FinnAgain

And you'd be wrong. Neither is an accusation of anti-semitism.
An anti-Semite is someone who hates Jews and/or believes negative things about them as a group.

So we aren''t anti-semites, we are just people who say things about Israel that we wouldn't say if Israel was full of blacks instead of being full of Jews? Or we are content tostand by while anti-semites say anti-semitic things because, well, they are jews after all.

And while I'm at it, I've called out Sam Stone, for instance, over his errors when he's taken a pro-Israel position on a few occasions. How many of the anti-Israel brigade here have ever done the same for people arguing an anti-Israel position?

I remember people jumping down that one guy's throat. English was obviously his second language, I forget his name. I corrected a few people about teh whole "baording the maru is illegal!!" thing. I think there is plenty of balance here without you getting shrill in your defense of Israel.

Honestly what would the reaction be if we changed your admission of anti-Israel bigotry to one of kneejerk anti-gay (or black, or whoever) bigotry?

I think you are confusing racism and anti-israeli sentiment. A racist is going to hate a black man no matter what he does. I will stop criticizing Israel if Israel stops being an asshole. I think a better analogy would be to admit that your general criticisms of the teabaggers became a kneejerk reaction because of Mark Williams.

Now if I had said that your rantings have made me a have a kneejerk hatred for Jews, then that would be a decent analogy but since you aren't calling me an anti-semite ...

No, they kept bringing it up. And even if they didn't, what does that tell you that people will automatically make certain accusations without bothering to check the facts first? It wasn't exactly hard. The search terms? "International law maritime blockade, -israel".

If you'll recall, almost noone in the media giot that fact straight either. I don't remember anyone from teh major news sources even mentioning the San Remo manual.

In the very thread you were just discussing, I mentioned many times that I thought that the blockade was needlessly harsh and caused undue suffering among the people of Gaza.

You're right, you did call certain aspects fo the blockade stupid. I had been qualifying this statement with that example (I mention your criticiasm of the blockade of coriander) but I left it out this time. It was unfair to say you NEVER criticize Israel.

if Israel didn't halt all settlement expansion immediately that the US should turn off the spigot and case all aid. Just a few posts later, Red Fury was back trolling me and claiming that I never criticize Israel and support everything they do. And, predictably, the anti-Israel posters in the thread didn't call him to task.

I don't know if i was part of that thread but are you saying that the settlements are wrong or are you saying that the settlements are provoking the US?

07-22-2010, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by amanset

What actually are the Palestinians doing that justifies the way they are treated?

Its what they are NOT doing. They aren't rounding up hamas leaders and handing them over to the Israelis.

Personally I am still waiting for the Palestinian Gandhi to emerge and march a bunch of Palestinians towards the checkpoint surrounding Gaza and let the IDF beat the crap out of them. Do this in front of camera a few times and you get to draw the new map of Israel (as long as Jerusalem is at least split between Israel and Palestine).

07-23-2010, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by Malthus

lots of married folks pretend to be single and it is not a good use of the criminal justice system to charge them all. However, under this law he's without a doubt guilty. On its face, persecution based on racism has nothing to do with it (though of course the judge etc. may well be racist, this cannot be demonstrated by the facts actually in evidence).

If lots of marries folks lie about being married, then why this guy? Why this time? You can't prove racism here because the law does apply and there isn't a long history of this law being applied like this one way or the other (so my previous analogy of drug laws being selectively enforced against blacks is not really on point). Is this simply the first time that someone has been caught lying about being married?

07-23-2010, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

Personally I am still waiting for the Palestinian Gandhi to emerge and march a bunch of Palestinians towards the checkpoint surrounding Gaza and let the IDF beat the crap out of them. Do this in front of camera a few times and you get to draw the new map of Israel (as long as Jerusalem is at least split between Israel and Palestine).

What makes you think that even if that would happen things would roll out as they did in India?

Knowing what we know about this conflict -- the most obvious thing being that Israelis are not British -- how can anyone come up with this idea for conflict resolution is beyond me.

07-23-2010, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Malthus

The law is that someone who lies about a factor they know the other person is relying on in relation to themselves in order to get sex is guilty, because such a lie means the consent was not meaningful.

I don't care that he's being convicted for lying. The fact is, he lied about being Palestinian. Obviously, a Jew wouldn't have to lie about being Jewish. In other words, the woman thought a Palestinian was below her and the state supported the woman's racism. If it was only because he was married, the judge wouldn't have said what he did regarding a "Jewish Batchelor". The judge should have said that the state does not get involved in matters of consent based on race/ethnicity.

What is chilling, which seems to go over some people's head, is that some of the comments seemed so matter of fact. It's sort of a given that Palestinians are a step down.

07-23-2010, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by heatmiserfl

...What is chilling, which seems to go over some people's head, is that some of the comments seemed so matter of fact. It's sort of a given that Palestinians are a step down.

Hardly "chilling" when you consider it's a fact w/many an Israeli and hard-core supporters of same. For fucks sake, it's exactly how they've been running their "democracy" for many a year.

However I do agree that the amount of support Israel gets from The Usual Suspects on here is indeed, mindless. Might as well have, in many cases, drones posting instead.

**Malthus** · 07-23-2010, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by heatmiserfl

I don't care that he's being convicted for lying. The fact is, he lied about being Palestinian. Obviously, a Jew wouldn't have to lie about being Jewish.

Obviously they would - if they were a Jewish guy and wanted to have sex with a nationalistic Arab woman.

In other words, the woman thought a Palestinian was below her and the state supported the woman's racism.

A woman is perfectly entitled to be as racist as a whole barrel of KKK members regarding who she will sleep with.

If it was only because he was married, the judge wouldn't have said what he did regarding a "Jewish Batchelor". The judge should have said that the state does not get involved in matters of consent based on race/ethnicity.

Why should lying about one's ethnicity be privileged over lying about one's job or marital status?

What is chilling, which seems to go over some people's head, is that some of the comments seemed so matter of fact. It's sort of a given that Palestinians are a step down.

Not a "given" at all. It is simply a "given' that some women would find the ethnicity of their partner an important consideration. Really, is that controversial?

**Villa** · 07-24-2010, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Malthus

A woman is perfectly entitled to be as racist as a whole barrel of KKK members regarding who she will sleep with.

No one is arguing that. The question is whether the power of the state should be utilized to assist someone being as racist as a whole barrel of KKK members regarding who she will sleep with.

07-24-2010, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by villa

Originally Posted by Malthus

A woman is perfectly entitled to be as racist as a whole barrel of KKK members regarding who she will sleep with.

No one is arguing that. The question is whether the power of the state should be utilized to assist someone being as racist as a whole barrel of KKK members regarding who she will sleep with.

Exactly. Malthus, you insist on glossing over this point. The state is not only assisting in racism but in an extreme way. The guy is charged with rape. I wonder what happens in a prison when a Palestinian is charged with raping a Jewish woman.

07-24-2010, 09:15 AM

Simply an amusing aside:

[url=http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=full][quote] Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency deeply discouraging to anyone with faith in the power of information. It