Thread: Sobriety check points and the 4th amendment

Apples and oranges.

Checkpoints don't violate the 4th.

Except for the cops who chase you down and pull you over for avoiding it. You don't read so good, do you?

So it's ok for a cop break the 4th amendment as long as I'm in my car?

Logic...

I know what you meant. You do not have "de facto" custodial rights to the use of property that you do not own, which would include the roads. You have a right to use your own roads, and if the state required you to obtain a license to use your road, that would be an infringement on your custodial rights.

A license to purchase a gun is an infringement in the market. The state does not own the gun (just as it does not own the private roads), and therefore cannot enforce a registration or licensing program without first obtaining its own "de facto" usage rights to the weapons. It does this by force, hence the infringement.

Licensing in itself (understood to be legal permission) isn't an infringement; it's the forceful acquisition of custodial rights that is. If the state simply contracted the weapons makers devoid of coercion, then there would be no market infringement, though I'd still take issue because that's not a proper function of government.

you?

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Should I make a thread? It might lead to interesting conversation.

Yes, it is. There is a tacit agreement in society that it is acceptable to drive in designated areas (public roads) or on private property that you control, as long as you are not directing the vehicle in such a way as to endanger somebody.

Firing a gun toward a person is an aggressive act. In fact, firing a gun at all outside designated areas (shooting ranges) or private property that you control (with certain conditions), absent good cause, is an aggressive act.

The two are not even comparable.

I don't know much about sobriety checkpoints... So I'm not arguing with you, just looking for clarification:

Are you saying that if I am driving down the road, without having checked before hand as to where sobriety checkpoints are or whatever, and I happen across one... I am given enough fair warning before I reach it that I can turn around or turn down another street without breaking any traffic laws to avoid it?

That's the actual ruling in Sitz, right? "Yeah it's a violation of the 4th amendment, but it's only a small violation so we let it stand"

(paraphrased, of course)